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[DickP]

On a recent episode of CBS This Morning, Charlie Rose grilled the President of Shell Oil Company (the US subsidiary of Royal Dutch Shell (RDS.A)) about the tax subsidies given to oil companies. While that's not exactly a case of a company behaving badly, it was tied into rising gas prices at the pump and the news that 55% of Americans believe oil companies are mainly to blame for high energy prices.

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/stock-an...#ixzz1rSiOPPQG

Is it really oil companies that control the price of gas or is it OPEC?

[Harrison]

OPEC is one part of it, but I don't weep for any oil man.

[ACE]

I was under the impression sky high gas prices have everything to do with Congress...

http://www.energyrefuge.com/archives...be_and_gas.htm


Economics 101 textbook: If you add an ingredient to a product that is pricier than the product itself, in effect, you're driving up the price of the product.

"We'd probably have retail gasoline prices between $2.30 and $2.40 a gallon if not for ethanol," estimates economist James Glassman of J.P. Morgan.

[bear]

I was under the impression sky high gas prices have everything to do with Congress...

http://www.energyrefuge.com/archives...be_and_gas.htm


Economics 101 textbook: If you add an ingredient to a product that is pricier than the product itself, in effect, you're driving up the price of the product.

"We'd probably have retail gasoline prices between $2.30 and $2.40 a gallon if not for ethanol," estimates economist James Glassman of J.P. Morgan.

I thought Ethanol was supposed to reduce the price of oil.......

[DickP]

I thought Ethanol was supposed to reduce the price of oil.......

Not only does Ethanol increase the price of gasoline by adding another process into the mix (literally), but it increases the price of corn and other foods with corn in it by decreasing the availability of corn since the government subsidizes corn crops and delegates a huge percentage of available corn stockpiles into Ethanol.

Pure bull****.

[FxFreedom]

I know a little bit about this, I learned this in college how yea like you said Ethanol is a complete BS industry and helps reduce our dependence on foreign oil by increasing the price of food, putting more and more farmers out of business, and making many food products more and more expensive while more and more American familes are making less and less, translating into literally thousands if not millions of people not being able to afford the foods that once were cheap to buy.

The problem is called "THE ETHANOL MANDATE" and the "2007 ENERGY INDEPENDENT SECURITY ACT"

The backstory is, everyone that pumps gas into their car can see a warning sticker that "this product may contain up to 10% ethanol" and the reason for this is a federal mandate that Congress in 2007 enacted that required corn/ethanol to be mixed into gasoline. What's really twisted about this federal mandate is not that it's there and is using corn, you could argue it's a good idea to mix ethanol into gas, but the way Congress went about it is all wrong and here's why.

Congress forces refineries in the USA to add an absolute amount, not a percentage, of ethanol into gasoline each year, I repeat, NOT A PERCENTAGE but an ABSOLUTE AMOUNT. So why is this so bad?

In 2013 Refineries are required by law to mix 13.8 billion gallons of ethanol into gasoline, in 2014 the mandate requires the refineries to mix 14.4 billion gallons of ethanol into gasoline, and while every year the law requires more and more ethanol to be mixed into their gasoline this makes no consideration for the fact that the demand for gasoline is falling! So now we're at the point where refineries don't want to mix in more ethanol for the logical reason car owners don't want to burn more than 10% of ethanol mixed in with gasoline (it's not efficient, it will burn quicker than pure gasoline), but regardless of what people want, the law still requires the refineries to add in 10% BUT at the same time BUY those 14billion gallons of ethanol whether they use it or not. That's where something called a "RENEWABLE ENERGY CREDIT" comes in to play, when a refinery meets that 10% standard, they can say, okay, no more buying ethanol for us, so instead we buy a "REN Credit" and can bypass the law.

This is where it gets complicated but it's also where YOU, ME, US, start paying 30% more for gas than we should be because of the Ethanol Scam. These REN CREDITS are quickly running out, and each year as demand for gas falls and the mandate for putting more and more corn into gas rises because of this stupid law, the RENS are costing more and more money, its just like any market, the demand is high, the supply is low so the price skyrockets for these REN CREDITS. So do you actually think the refineries will be paying extra out of their own pocket? No, they pass the costs of the RENS onto the consumer.

Amazingly they did this (republicans and democrats) because they thought it would help ween us off of our dependence on foreign oil. But back when this started there was no indication of the SHALE OIL industry taking off and flooding the market with domestically produced oil, driving supply way up.

When the Ethanol Mandate was signed into law we were importing 65% of our oil, today we're only importing 30% of our oil, a HUGE difference and the laws simply have not caught up to the reality of the market. Another example of how over regulation is stifling free markets, driving up costs for businesses and in turn those costs being passed along to John Q Sucker, you and me.


That's not the only fauxpas the Ethanol Mandate creates, it also drives up the demand for Corn and greatly greatly increases the demand for available water to help this very water intensive crop (corn) survive and keep up with the demand not just for food supplies but for this idiotic Ethanol demand. So in turn it makes food more expensive also! So 50% of our corn in America goes into Ethanol, which keeps going up and up, and this cost is passed along to John Q Sucker also!

So in my opinion, it's all one big scam: more ethanol in your gasoline mix, the faster the gas burns, the quicker you have to refill your tank, the more money out of your pocket.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Ethanol Scam in a nutshell

[DickP]

I know a little bit about this, I learned this in college how yea like you said Ethanol is a complete BS industry and helps reduce our dependence on foreign oil by increasing the price of food, putting more and more farmers out of business, and making many food products more and more expensive while more and more American familes are making less and less, translating into literally thousands if not millions of people not being able to afford the foods that once were cheap to buy.

The problem is called "THE ETHANOL MANDATE" and the "2007 ENERGY INDEPENDENT SECURITY ACT"

The backstory is, everyone that pumps gas into their car can see a warning sticker that "this product may contain up to 10% ethanol" and the reason for this is a federal mandate that Congress in 2007 enacted that required corn/ethanol to be mixed into gasoline. What's really twisted about this federal mandate is not that it's there and is using corn, you could argue it's a good idea to mix ethanol into gas, but the way Congress went about it is all wrong and here's why.

Congress forces refineries in the USA to add an absolute amount, not a percentage, of ethanol into gasoline each year, I repeat, NOT A PERCENTAGE but an ABSOLUTE AMOUNT. So why is this so bad?
:

Wow, I never knew all that. Where'd you learn so much about Ethanol? College? I didn't learn jack in college except how to treat the clap.

[DickP]

[DickP]

Why Brazil has a brighter future than the USA when it comes to fuel for cars...

[DickP]

Corn Ethanol: The False Hope

[DickP]

CAN YOU BUY GAS WITHOUT ETHANOL? YES AND NO


http://pure-gas.org/

[EU_TRADER]

Yea t least you pay less than $5 per gallon, I think Ethanol must be doing something right for the USA

[pipMasterG]

What you don't mention is that the energy it takes to create Ethanol is the same amount of Ethanol used by consumers. So if $10 of Diesel fuel is used to create ethanol, $10 is saved at the pumps (arguably) and we're back where we started, nobody gains except the super corn producers and Ethanol scam businesses.