Is anyone surprised the NSA spies on you?

[DickP]

This whole "scandal" makes me laugh inside.

Honestly, where did you think $10 billion per annum goes? Lunch-ins? Pilates classes? Yacht Seminars (okay if you're Felix Homogratus, $10 billion might cover a few Yacht Seminars )




No, $10 Billion goes to developing the latest technology that will help "them" read every message, decipher every code, analyze and digest all that data in a discernible way so it would be useful for "them" to badger, bully, or disappear those that get in "their" way.

I hear Obama trying to make you feel better saying, it's not against U.S. Citizens... If you're a "U.S. Person" you don't have to worry. But really, first of all this isn't his mess, the government's been spying on us for at least a decade, and thanks to 9/11 a new world order of Orwellian, dictatorial oversight has taken over, if the terrorists wanted to **** America up from the inside, 9/11 was the day that they can look back on and say "THEY WON"

So really, I'm actually going to defend Obama on one hand because this isn't his brainchild, nor was it Bush's, it's just a governments natural inclination to try and gain as much intelligence on it's own people as possible; it's been going on for 1000's of years. But for the first time in history are governments able to spy on everyone, read every text message, look up every facebook post, scan every email, essentially read the minds and predict the actions of everyone under their control.



So, get over it, big brother's here to stay, if you want to have a private conversation, go with your friend to a coffee shop, just remember to leave your stupid Iphones in the car because they are actively listening to you, no joke: http://www.eidac.de/?p=109

[mk3fx]

Accused NSA whistleblower faces charges of spying in U.S.

" Edward Snowden, the accused National Security Agency whistleblower, now faces charges of spying against the United States.

The U.S. has asked Hong Kong to detain Snowden. He's been there since last month.

Snowden had worked at a facility in Hawaii for Booz Allen Hamilton, a firm that does contract work for the NSA."

Does this smell like bull**** to anyone else?

[Sel]

[SIZE=4][B]Accused NSA whistleblower faces charges of spying in U.S.

Does this smell like bull**** to anyone else?

Did anyone see Mercury Rising?

I'm surprised this guy didn't get capped by an ex-special forces guy that turned into a NSA hitman by now....

[ACE]

Donald Trump Says Snowden should be killed...

[DitterPD]

Why is it such a big surprise, when here and there news popped up giving us a good hint what is going on. Yes, it wasn't a scandal, it wasn't a straight - "They are spying", but anyone with a little bit of grey matter and logic could put together 2 + 2.. -> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...nsadatacenter/ - some of the news, before scandal.

[DickP]

Yea DitterPD is spot on

[skynet]

Snowden is a disinfo agent, perhaps even an agent provacateur, I think he was planted by the government perhaps elements disloyal to Obama (there's quite a few) to "say the NSA is doing all this dirt" which like DICKP says isn't really a big revelation... but after this Snowden ****, watch all whistleblowers (even ones not jeopardizing national security) get hit with some new ****ed up law that will put them in jail for life, if not get them executed.

Seriously, a year down the road expect Congress to have passed a "Whistleblower Penalty Law" and how convenient is that, Snowden is the cause of it and really didn't blow the whistle on anything too important.

[ACE]

Snowden is a disinfo agent, perhaps even an agent provacateur, I think he was planted by the government perhaps elements disloyal to Obama (there's quite a few) to "say the NSA is doing all this dirt" which like DICKP says isn't really a big revelation... but after this Snowden ****, watch all whistleblowers (even ones not jeopardizing national security) get hit with some new ****ed up law that will put them in jail for life, if not get them executed.

Seriously, a year down the road expect Congress to have passed a "Whistleblower Penalty Law" and how convenient is that, Snowden is the cause of it and really didn't blow the whistle on anything too important.

You have a really good point and I'm inclined to agree... although the end game is speculative, Mark Snowden seems like he's at least and unwitting agent provocateur, if not a willing agent provocateur.

First of all, he couldn't have known ALL there is to know about the NSA like they are saying. If the NSA is anything like the military (and believe me it's 10x more secretive and untrusting), then it will compartmentalize the living **** out of itself, so much so that a low level guy like Snowden won't know a fraction of all the NSA's secrets. Sure, maybe he was involved in the exact thing he's whistleblowing about, but they're making him out to be this high level guy that knew everything to know about the NSA which is impossible.

Facts about Snowden:

He was in the Army, tried out for Special Forces, probably Army Rangers and broke his leg.

Then he was hired by a private contractor and became a security guard.

Then all of a sudden he works for the NSA... security guard to NSA analyst? Doesn't make sense.

I think he is just part of an operation, a double agent of some sort, he's probably a dumbass, not that all Army people are dumb, but the NSA hires GENIUSES, Cryptographers, Computer Engineers, the best of the best... so to go from security guard to be among the "ELITE" of America's Intelligence Community doesn't add up.

I do think Mark Snowden is a hoax, and has a funny name, Snowden-Snowjob, it's a deception meant to do something, first he goes to China then Russia, two of America's biggest adversaries at this point with information? Was he trying to get information? Most likely he was trying to subplant himself into their operations and at a later date come back to the USA with information on China or Russia's intelligence capabilities.

[DitterPD]

Here we go again. Please, no conspiracy theories. After every hard-to-believe event, we are seeing hundreds of unmaskers telling us a true nature of bombing/scandal/death.

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (c)

Stop right here.

[Forex-News]

Click Here To Read The Article "U.S. Seeks to Calm European Outrage Over Alleged Spying"



ForexForums.com claims no ownership of the preceding information.

[Forex-News]

Click Here To Read The Article "Snowden Seeks Asylum in Russia"



ForexForums.com claims no ownership of the preceding information.

[DickP]

Even though I'm usually tinfoil hat man, meaning I'm open to any possibility, I think perhaps that when they put the news out there that Snowden is a hoax and a disinfo agent, that's maybe the NSA actually trying to discredit Snowden... I mean he's not helping anyone in the USA, that's for sure. Unless there is something to the fact that it's elements within the US government that don't like Obama since this is a huge mess that's ready to really give Obama a big fat **** burger to eat.

[DickP]

Here we go again. Please, no conspiracy theories. After every hard-to-believe event, we are seeing hundreds of unmaskers telling us a true nature of bombing/scandal/death.

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (c)

Stop right here.

In most cases that's true, but on 9/11... explain Tower 7, no one really can...

[DitterPD]

Even though I'm usually tinfoil hat man, meaning I'm open to any possibility, I think perhaps that when they put the news out there that Snowden is a hoax and a disinfo agent, that's maybe the NSA actually trying to discredit Snowden... I mean he's not helping anyone in the USA, that's for sure. Unless there is something to the fact that it's elements within the US government that don't like Obama since this is a huge mess that's ready to really give Obama a big fat **** burger to eat.

Well.. read this article http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-ars-technica/ - I know such type of guys and I am mostly inclined to believe that he has done it because he really felt like this. And he had plan how and when and why. I don't' think anyone set him up to it. Are there people who are smiling and rubbing their hands while Obama is getting all the negative press? Of course. But it's no more than a fluke for them.

In most cases that's true, but on 9/11... explain Tower 7, no one really can...

Oh my, oh my.. don't get me started on this. I've spent a sh*tload of time reading all the conspiracy theories and debunking them (at least for myself) and I know 2 things for sure. All "USA did this", "How do you explain X?" and etc. - is total and heavy BS by uninformed, misguided and bored public and 2) no matter how long and convincing your FACTS (pay attention, not theories, but facts) will be - the other side will leave with its own opinion. So I will pass on this discussion

[DickP]

Well.. read this article http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-ars-technica/ - I know such type of guys and I am mostly inclined to believe that he has done it because he really felt like this. And he had plan how and when and why. I don't' think anyone set him up to it. Are there people who are smiling and rubbing their hands while Obama is getting all the negative press? Of course. But it's no more than a fluke for them.



Oh my, oh my.. don't get me started on this. I've spent a sh*tload of time reading all the conspiracy theories and debunking them (at least for myself) and I know 2 things for sure. All "USA did this", "How do you explain X?" and etc. - is total and heavy BS by uninformed, misguided and bored public and 2) no matter how long and convincing your FACTS (pay attention, not theories, but facts) will be - the other side will leave with its own opinion. So I will pass on this discussion

I don't hear an explanation about Building 7 collapsing at free fall speed from a sporadic fire on a single floor for less than 7 hours. I'm not skipping ahead to say USA did it, or anyone, I have no clue, but to ignore an elephant in the room such as that is like sticking your head in the sand and saying "it's too much for me to handle" and I'd hope that being American and having cognitive abilities above our simian cousins would force us to try and find out what exactly happened and not give up until we're satisfied. That's where we differ I guess, those "debunking" of at the very least WTC7 falling as if the supports were brought out from under it are not convincing to me. And every debunker of WTC7 says "it would be impossible to wire the building, yada yada, when in fact (and this goes for the two twin towers as well), you don't need to wire an entire building to fall in its own footprint, all you need to do is set up ONE floor with special hydraulic demolition equipment and the entire structure will fall in its footprint.



Now THAT's what I saw happen to 3 buildings on 9/11, not a "controlled pyrotechnic demolition."


And I'll leave you with one last tiding. The official story has 19 hijackers planning and carrying out this very elaborate mission, which by enlarge involved sending our entire air force to Canada for a once in a lifetime drill, sending Edwards Air Force base's remaining pilots over the Atlantic ocean to scan for threats, totally confused the most elaborate air defense system in the history of the planet, okay, they figured that out, BUT, if you believe the official theory of what happened, is that not a conspiracy theory too? 19 men conspired to carry this out, no one knows for sure why or how (they're all dead and we can't interview them), but they did successfully. So are you not also a conspiracy theorist? Isn't anyone that believes for certain what happened on 9/11 subscribing to one conspiracy theory or another, government sponsored or tinfoil hat guy sponsored (like me)?

Here's a good video that you probably didn't come across in your research that may change your outlook a bit... how many god damn drills can the government operate on a single day without someone saying, wait, why so many once in a life time drills that are tying up so much of our defense on the same day of a once in a life time terror attack?




I'll even put to you that perhaps the terrorists were state sponsored, either IRAN, RUSSIA or even CHINA, because which intelligence agencies do you think would know when those drills were going to take place and that 9/11 would be the absolute best time to strike the USA because over 15 exercises that were distracting our defense forces in almost every conceivable way were taking place? I don't think Iraq, or Iran would have that type of intel capability to garner such elaborate and secretive info, but RUSSIA and CHINA sure as snot did and still does. Maybe that's why all these conspiracy theories are springing up to prevent world war 3, and maybe then George Bush deserves some credit for lying his ass off about that day, that is, since we're not all glowing in the dark right now.

[DickP]

Well.. read this article http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-ars-technica/ - I know such type of guys and I am mostly inclined to believe that he has done it because he really felt like this. And he had plan how and when and why. I don't' think anyone set him up to it. Are there people who are smiling and rubbing their hands while Obama is getting all the negative press? Of course. But it's no more than a fluke for them.

I'm inclined to agree until I read this: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...in-fellow.html

Putin is actually saying, "sure stay, but cease and desist your freedom fighting ways..."

We have to look at this in the greater context of what's going on for Russia at the moment, the big thing being SYRIA, and Putin's main drive is to keep Assad in power which is looking more and more likely with each passing day. The West's (along with the Saudi's) plans to topple Assad in a few weeks or months is now YEARS and Putin is now negotiating from a position of power. I read the other day that they're sending super sophisticated new jet fighters and bombers to Assad while America, Saudi Arabia et al, (whatever proxy will step up) is sending the world's most sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles, shoulder fired and mobile batteries. Syria is becoming an arms bazaar of the most sophisticated sort, very quickly. Now all of a sudden this guy Snowden comes from left field and really puts a turd in the punch bowl for Putin since America has made Snowden Public Enemy #1, does Putin then harbor him and let Snowden continue his quest within the confines of Russia? Or does Putin kick him out and send a signal to his own allies (America's enemies) that he's not very serious about sticking it to the USA by giving Snowden "life" beyond his initial leaking. And I don't know what more Snowden can say that we don't already know. I mean I didn't even mention it in my first post but most kids reading this weren't around in the 1980's to remember the "ECHELON PROGRAM" by the NSA which was the exact same thing, spying on every communication, everything, but without the internet to aid them, so I go back to why the outrage in America, do you all have that foggy of a memory to forget the NSA has been doing this since at least the 1980's? At any rate, back to Putin... He smartly said, I'll split the difference and let Snowden stay only if he gives up his quest, which signals to me he's not ruling out the fact that Snowden might be a plant or at the very least a political "hot potato" sent Putin's way to "burn him" but alas, Putin really is a brilliant guy, a sly politician for sure, he says, sure, stay but don't do anything more to denegrate our American "partners"

So like I said I can only go by what I am reading (all of which I can't believe because I'm not there, how should I know), but what I'm seeing is like I said one of two things, A) Snowden is a disinfo agent as someone else suggested, which I don't necesserily think is true, the evidence isn't there, or B) Snowden was put in a position to ascertain all this "knowledge" about the NSA's spying program and felt that in his heart he had to do the right thing and let the public know. But if we go to B and truly believe that you have to ask yourself as I stated before WHY ARE ANY OF YOU SURPRISED THE NSA DOES THIS??? AND WHY IS SNOWDEN A HERO FOR SAYING, IN ESSENCE, THE SKY IS BLUE, WATER IS WET, THE NSA SPIES ON YOU...



To finish Bruce's line... WHO GIVES A F***

[DitterPD]

I will just say on last thing about 9/11.

PRISM and other spy programs (you could read about them in recent few weeks) are relatively young and still we have someone to report/whistle blow about it. How many leaks from WikiLeaks? Or let's remember Watergate scandal. And these operations are just tiny puppies if we accept that 9/11 was a set up. And still, they couldn't keep information in house.

Now, just only imagine how many people, organizations and what kind of security of top secret documents should be to cover up such huge operation as 9/11? It wouldn't be just possible to keep quiet so many people or not to make a mistake, not to have a breach in security with all the truth leaking out. We are not robots and someone would eventually go nuts and would start shouting as Snowden did. Just the scale of planning and security (and trustworthy people) they would need to have is unimaginable and unreal.

These are my 2 cents and I will refrain from further discussion about it.

[skynet]

I have to say that yea dick is tinfoil hat guy for a reason lol...

but my brother was a Marine and I asked him about the chain of command a while back and he said it wouldn't be difficult if a few people "in charge" and "in the know" ordered hundreds of people under them who didn't know jack **** about what was going on to do whatever it is on 9/11 and get away with it because those hundreds and thousands of people didn't know jack ****. They couldn't possibly see "the whole" as it exists like those in the know saw it and knew it to be true.

I dunno what to believe anymore but you can argue greatly that this whole conspiracy stuff is Russia's ongoing and century long disinfo campaign against the US Government to make it's people not trust it's government... and a whopping 60% of people believe the government was involved or let it happen (adding those two pieces of the pie together.). I think most of that is because of how America reacted, all these years later it looks like war profiteers profited, no one was really punished, and those same people we funded in Afghanistan in the 80's took our money and used it against us... all coincidental or something more depending on your point of view.

But you have to figure, was Bush an "idiot" for lashing out against "the enemy" or not? I think it was right to fight fire with fire, but that's just me man...

[skynet]

Even though I'm usually tinfoil hat man, meaning I'm open to any possibility, I think perhaps that when they put the news out there that Snowden is a hoax and a disinfo agent, that's maybe the NSA actually trying to discredit Snowden... I mean he's not helping anyone in the USA, that's for sure. Unless there is something to the fact that it's elements within the US government that don't like Obama since this is a huge mess that's ready to really give Obama a big fat **** burger to eat.

long live tinfoil hat man... don't let them alien signals interfere with your already jacked up view on life

[Paprika]

This is straight from Wikipedia (so it must be true )

Okay so humor yourself for a minute and say these dozen or so simulated "drills" went "live" on 9/11 and the attacks went as planned as outlined in these drills, what scares the **** out of me is the drill that was planned for the very next day after September 11:

Operation Tripod bioterrorism exercise

On September 12, 2001, there was due to take place the second part of an exercise known as Operation Tripod, set up to "test the plan to distribute antibiotics to the entire city population during a bioterrorism attack"[13] Richard Sheirer, director of the New York City mayor's Office of Emergency Management (OEM), had hired "over 1,000 Police Academy cadets and Fire Department trainees to play terrified civilians afflicted with various medical conditions, allergies, and panic attacks." Various individuals were invited to watch, including Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, the police and fire commissioners, and representatives of the FBI and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).[14] Pier 92 was set up as a model distribution station where the "victims" of the mock attack who needed to receive antibiotics would be treated.[13] The exercise was a follow-up to a previous training exercise in New York, called RED Ex, which took place on May 21, 2001.[15] According to the MTI Report Saving City Lifelines: Lessons Learned in the 9-11 Terrorist Attacks, "September 11 was going to be a busy day at the OEM. Staff members arrived early to prepare for Operation Tripod."[13]

When the September 11, 2001 attacks began, Operation Tripod was immediately canceled as attentions turned to the real ongoing emergency. Because Pier 92 had been set up ready for the exercise, OEM staff were able to move there and quickly convert it into a large emergency operations center when their original command center (in WTC Building 7) was evacuated and later destroyed. Thus, within 31 hours of the attacks, OEM had a functional facility able to manage the search and rescue effort, just four miles north-northwest of the WTC site.[16] The exercise was later rescheduled and took place on May 22, 2002.[17]

I'll split the difference and say I think our enemies knew when these drills were going to take place and tipped off Al Qaeda so they would have the highest probability of success. That makes more sense and doesn't involve Americans slaughtering other Americans.