Have You Registered?




Connect with Facebook
  Forex Forums > Forex Forums Main Discussions > GENERAL FOREX DISCUSSIONS
You have new profile comments! New Friend Requests!
All times are GMT. The time now is 12:05.

GENERAL FOREX DISCUSSIONS

Here you can post anything related to Forex, Stocks, The Economy, and anything that might affect any currency you are able to trade. You will find Forex News and all general currency related subject. Go to the Dedicated Currency Discussions to talk about currencies in active discussions.


Register Now for FREE!
Our records show you have not yet registered to our forums.
Your free registration unlocks every area of the forum including our Forex Signals area.
To sign up for your FREE account INSTANTLY fill out the form below!

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
Agree to forum rules 

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools

Old 10-30-2009, 19:54   #76 (permalink)
bear
Forex In The Blood

bear's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Last Online: 07-29-2010
Posts (Threads): 96 (5)
Credits: 2,519
View bear's Profile   View bear's Photo Album   Add bear's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

God, I wish I could trade like you

bear is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Sponsored links
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
Advertisement

Old 11-01-2009, 23:34   #77 (permalink)
DickP
Are you not entertained?!

DickP's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2007
Last Online: 07-29-2010
Location: United States
Posts (Threads): 1,666 (75)
Credits: 23,821
View DickP's Profile   View DickP's Photo Album   Add DickP's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRumpledOne View Post
DO NOT LET ANYONE FOOL YOU.

Who's money are you taking when you win?

http://www.4shared.com/file/10999340...the_Brain.html
Good point. Just certain banks drain with you, certain banks get drained at the same time, agreed right?

DickP is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-02-2009, 13:08   #78 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



Remember what H. Rearden said:

"Now, 2 patterns of market behaviour happen on a regular basis:

1) the price breaks to new high's (or low's)

2) the price reverses from new high's (or low's)"


If price is NOT making a new low then it must be reversing from the low.

1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY

2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.

"The technique is so simple that just several lessons (or a few pages of explanations) cover it all. Now what? Now the student has to practice, practice and practice again to understand what he had been taught. The teacher DOES know much more than the student, but his understanding can't be "passed", "transferred" or taught in any way -- not even by reading books."



OPPORTUNITY....
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


GREEN RAT TAKES SOME CHEESE...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


WAITING...
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-02-2009, 14:21   #79 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default


<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


WAITING...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


GOT CHEESE!!
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


GREEN RAT GETTING FAT!!
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-02-2009, 16:50   #80 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-03-2009, 08:02   #81 (permalink)
Forex Genius
Forex Warrior

Forex Genius's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Last Online: 06-22-2010
Posts (Threads): 26 (10)
Credits: 1,233
View Forex Genius's Profile   View Forex Genius's Photo Album   Add Forex Genius's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

I agree **** this is alot for a noob to swallow, but I will be reading this throughout the day"
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
Sorry, I need 15 posts to place my link....

Forex Genius is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-03-2009, 12:07   #82 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



Remember what H. Rearden said:

"Now, 2 patterns of market behaviour happen on a regular basis:

1) the price breaks to new high's (or low's)

2) the price reverses from new high's (or low's)"


If price is NOT making a new low then it must be reversing from the low.

1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY

2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.

"The technique is so simple that just several lessons (or a few pages of explanations) cover it all. Now what? Now the student has to practice, practice and practice again to understand what he had been taught. The teacher DOES know much more than the student, but his understanding can't be "passed", "transferred" or taught in any way -- not even by reading books."
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


RESULTS
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->

<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forex Genius View Post
I agree **** this is alot for a noob to swallow, but I will be reading this throughout the day"
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
Sorry, I need 15 posts to place my link....

It is NOT a lot to swallow.

FREE YOUR MIND!

The following is the essence of the trade:

Remember what H. Rearden said:

"Now, 2 patterns of market behaviour happen on a regular basis:

1) the price breaks to new high's (or low's)

2) the price reverses from new high's (or low's)"


If price is NOT making a new low then it must be reversing from the low.

1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY

2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.

"The technique is so simple that just several lessons (or a few pages of explanations) cover it all. Now what? Now the student has to practice, practice and practice again to understand what he had been taught. The teacher DOES know much more than the student, but his understanding can't be "passed", "transferred" or taught in any way -- not even by reading books."

If this is all you ever do, you can be a profitable trader.
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-04-2009, 02:09   #83 (permalink)
skyblue
Forex Warrior

skyblue's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2009
Last Online: 11-04-2009
Posts (Threads): 26 (0)
Credits: 1,396
View skyblue's Profile   View skyblue's Photo Album   Add skyblue's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

Well it is a real challenge to stay on top, times are hard right now. Good luck!
__________________
Double Your Money Every Single Month.
skyblue is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-04-2009, 13:01   #84 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default




1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY

2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.

"The technique is so simple that just several lessons (or a few pages of explanations) cover it all. Now what? Now the student has to practice, practice and practice again to understand what he had been taught. The teacher DOES know much more than the student, but his understanding can't be "passed", "transferred" or taught in any way -- not even by reading books."


OPPORTUNITY...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


RED RAT GOT CHEESE
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-04-2009, 19:01   #85 (permalink)
kvll
EUR/USD Lover!

kvll's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Last Online: 11-30-2009
Age: 17
Posts (Threads): 11 (1)
Credits: 534
View kvll's Profile   View kvll's Photo Album   Add kvll's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

Woah i don't get it,at all! srsly right now i'm like "wtf h4x"!
__________________
EUR/USD FTW FTL
kvll is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-05-2009, 12:53   #86 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



RED RAT OPPORTUNITY...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


RED RAT ACTION...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


GOT CHEESE?
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-05-2009, 14:59   #87 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



The chance that the upper wick (daily high - close) will be more than 20 pips in length is what I look to exploit for profit.

Based on frequency distribution, this occurs over 66% of the time.



HERE WE GO AGAIN...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


Just have to WAIT for the price to get into the RED RAT REVERSAL ZONE to begin trading
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-06-2009, 15:07   #88 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default




1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY





2) red candle closes





2) red candle closes





2) red candle closes

Trading is waiting... you must learn to wait for you entry trigger.
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Sponsored links
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
Advertisement

Old 11-06-2009, 15:56   #89 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price





4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.





You could have made 10 or more pips for a 2% gain.


"The technique is so simple that just several lessons (or a few pages of explanations) cover it all. Now what? Now the student has to practice, practice and practice again to understand what he had been taught. The teacher DOES know much more than the student, but his understanding can't be "passed", "transferred" or taught in any way -- not even by reading books."
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-10-2009, 13:35   #90 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

More information about THE RAT:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/002700.html
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


OPPORTUNITY
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-11-2009, 21:08   #91 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

THIS IS WAY TOO FUNNY!!

http://www.rattraders.com/
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-13-2009, 13:09   #92 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-19-2009, 17:38   #93 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



OPPORTUNITY...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->

<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVINBURNS70 View Post
why'd they delete your post? this is super usefuL...

Nice Informative thread but we can further read about this topic on forextradingevo.com. This informative website cover all the matter related to this topic. I hope this type of Informative thread will come again and again.

forextradingevo.com
What are you talking about?
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


OPPORTUNITY...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-20-2009, 15:01   #94 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



OPPORTUNITY...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


RESULTS
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-22-2009, 18:57   #95 (permalink)
PriceActionFX
Primordial FX Goo

PriceActionFX's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Last Online: 11-22-2009
Posts (Threads): 9 (0)
Credits: 516
View PriceActionFX's Profile   View PriceActionFX's Photo Album   Add PriceActionFX's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVINBURNS70 View Post
why'd they delete your post? this is super usefuL...

Nice Informative thread but we can further read about this topic on forextradingevo.com. This informative website cover all the matter related to this topic. I hope this type of Informative thread will come again and again.

forextradingevo.com
Cool website, like your set up there.

PriceActionFX is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-23-2009, 17:30   #96 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



OPPORTUNITY...
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


RESULTS
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-23-2009, 20:46   #97 (permalink)
MOOSE
Forex Warrior

MOOSE's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Last Online: 11-23-2009
Location: East Brunswick
Posts (Threads): 10 (0)
Credits: 1,016
View MOOSE's Profile   View MOOSE's Photo Album   Add MOOSE's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default

The Rumpled One,

I had a few hours to go over everything you said. I am still a tad confused BUT I think if you could somehow take about 10 minutes and make a video of some kind we will get a better understanding of this method.

After all you said NEVER LOSE AGAIN, and that's what drew me in, but theres so much to take in here.

MOOSE is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-24-2009, 18:49   #98 (permalink)
babs
Forex In The Blood

babs's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Last Online: 07-23-2010
Posts (Threads): 44 (0)
Credits: 991
View babs's Profile   View babs's Photo Album   Add babs's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Video great method

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRumpledOne View Post
THIS IS WAY TOO FUNNY!!

http://www.rattraders.com/
good fun there

I was wondering too if you hand amy videos of your method, you have perked my interest with what is possible, I just need to see how its done myself.

babs is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-25-2009, 11:19   #99 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



RESULTS
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
No video, at this time.

The rules have been posted with numerous examples.

The method is SIMPLE. More times than not, this is difficult for traders to accept. They have been conditioned to seek out and use complex methods.
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOOSE View Post
The Rumpled One,

I had a few hours to go over everything you said. I am still a tad confused BUT I think if you could somehow take about 10 minutes and make a video of some kind we will get a better understanding of this method.

After all you said NEVER LOSE AGAIN, and that's what drew me in, but theres so much to take in here.

If you have a specific question, ask.
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->




YOUR MONEY AND YOUR BRAIN: How The New Science Of Neuroeconomics Can Help Make You Rich
By Jason Zweig
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


OPPORTUNITY...
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Old 11-25-2009, 19:29   #100 (permalink)
TheRumpledOne
Contributor

TheRumpledOne's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Last Online: 07-28-2010
Posts (Threads): 253 (1)
Credits: 16,630
View TheRumpledOne's Profile   View TheRumpledOne's Photo Album   Add TheRumpledOne's to Your Contacts   View Social Groups
Default



YOUR MONEY AND YOUR BRAIN: How The New Science Of Neuroeconomics Can Help Make You Rich
By Jason Zweig
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->


RESULTS
<-------------------------------------------------------------------->
Ignoring Big Chances, Bumblebees Just Seek Small, Reliable Gains
By NATALIE ANGIER
Published: Tuesday, September 3, 1991

TO anybody who has been attacked by an enraged bumblebee, the insect seems impulsive to the point of kamikaze madness, willing to risk life and stinger to protect its nest.

But in its everyday behavior while out rummaging for nectar and pollen, it seems, the bumblebee is a model of conservatism.

In the most detailed study yet of how an animal estimates the costs and benefits of various foraging strategies, Dr. Leslie A. Real of the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill has discovered that bumblebees make decisions about the marketplace of flowers with a degree of caution that would please an Amish elder. Avoiding the Big Gamble

Reporting in the current issue of the journal Science, Dr. Real said that bumblebees preferred small rewards in measured doses over the possibility of winning big but with a high chance of failure.

When presented in the laboratory with two types of artificial flowers, one that holds a modest but predictable amount of nectar, and the other that sometimes offers huge quantities of food but at other times contains little or nothing of the bee's beloved liqueur, the bees quickly learn to avoid the chancy flower and home in on the known quantity.

The results indicate that the bees make decisions in a manner quite unlike the strategies used by many humans, he said, who often rely on a subjective sense of luck, fate and intuition before choosing a course of action. Dr. Real suggests that the conservative approach is of great benefit to the bee, and that a more daredevil approach would probably doom the little creature to extinction.

"A bee will go after a predictable resource rather than a risky one," Dr. Real said. "Bees are processing information in a very particular way, and following certain computational rules that end up being good for the bee in its particular environment."

The new findings, which involve elaborate calculations of bee flight dynamics, bee energy needs, bee brainpower capacity and bee ingestion mechanics, give fresh insight into why animals make the choices they do about local resources and how best to harvest them.

"The questions he's asking are incredibly important, and it's great that he has an ecological perspective," said Dr. Thomas Eisner, an evolutionary biologist at Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y. Surprisingly Sophisticated Choices

Other scientists were impressed by the report's emphasis on bee intelligence. Rather than dismissing the bee as a stupid creature whose every action is a reflexive, hardwired response, as many researchers have in the past, Dr. Real says that the bee uses its limited neurological capacity to good advantage, and that it reaches surprisingly sophisticated conclusions about life from a restricted sampling of the environment.

"This is a question of animal problem solving," said Dr. Gene E. Robinson, an entomologist at the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, who works on honeybees. "Real isn't writing a neurobiological paper, but he's trying to ask, How does an animal make a decision and what do the results say about the underlying neural processes that may be taking place in the brain of a bumblebee?"

Dr. Real chose to study bumblebees because, unlike honeybees, they do not dance or in any other way seem to communicate with one another about potential food sources. Instead, each bumblebee makes its foraging decisions independently.

The researchers built artificial gardens of 100 blue cardboard flowers and 100 yellow cardboard flowers, interspersed randomly, with little dishes placed on top of them. The blue-flower dishes were supplied with fixed amounts of honey and water -- representing the nectar -- while in the yellow-flower dishes the quantity of food was varied. Some trays were left empty, while others were filled far beyond what was apportioned to the fixed blue flowers.

Marking individual bees with daubs of paint, the researchers set them free to forage. The bees began by randomly visiting flowers. With their keen color vision able to discriminate between blue and yellow, they needed only a sample of five or six flowers before they started focusing all their efforts on the predictable blue flowers. They did so even though the average amount of nectar under each flower type was the same.

The only difference was that in one case it was divvied up evenly, and in the other it was distributed with more in some dishes and none in the others.

For another foraging session, the flower colors were changed, with blue representing varying rewards, and yellow the sure bet. The color made no difference. After visitations to only half a dozen flowers, the bees this time overwhelmingly preferred the steady yellows over the fickle blues.

Dr. Real then began playing around with the ratio of risk to benefit in the varying flower dishes, offering tiny bits of honey in some dishes and bigger amounts in the remaining; but still the bees opted for the flowers that had the constant, moderate amounts of food.

Only when the ratio of payoff to risk became considerable did the bees begin preferring the flowers with the varied amounts. But at that point, the average amount of nectar to be had from all the variable flowers was several times greater than could be extracted from the sum of the predictable flowers, a set of odds that could hardly qualify as a Dostoyevskian gamble.

After many additional experiments and complex engineering and economics calculations, Dr. Real has concluded that the bee's fundamental computational rule is to obey what it has deduced about flowers after the most seemingly cursory of samplings.

"They seem to be influenced by short-term calculations of benefit rather than by long-term calculations," he said. "If the bee were just concerned about the total nectar it could extract over an entire patch of flowers, then it might take the longterm average of those flowers. But it seems to be more concerned about the rewards it will get from a particular flower, so it computes the average value very differently."

While that may seem like a short-sighted and small-minded approach to seeking food, said Dr. Real, it actually works to the bee's advantage. "There are lots of other bees and other pollinators in the same patch that are exploiting the same types of flowers," Dr. Real said. "So what the bee needs to worry about more than anything else is the quality of this flower it's on, rather than thinking about those flowers that may be spread out around it."

In general, he said, any given crop of flowers in nature is likely to have been picked through to some degree by other nectar-seekers. Only seldom is a floral stand so virginal that a visiting forager could expect the patch to be bursting with food. Because bees need to keep eating, they cannot afford to hunt around for such a rare blessing.

Thus, it behooves a bee to accept the realities of competition and to make the best of a modest situation, finding a small group of flowers within the larger patch that offers a reasonable if unremarkable quantity of nectar.

Dr. Real believes the bees are so geared toward this sort of pragmatism that they end up pooh-poohing the occasional juicy reward as a probable irrelevance.

"Bees ignore rare events and pay attention to common events," he said. Indeed, his calculations showed that the bees somewhat underestimate the chances of a rare event occurring, which is why he had to bump up the ratios in his variable flowers relatively high before the bees would change their natural predilection for the predictable. "A bumblebee perceives the rare event as being even rarer than it is," he said.

Such an attitude stands in decided contrast to that of humans. "Psychologists have long suggested that humans underestimate the likelihood of common events, and overestimate the likelihood of rare events," he said. "They homogenize probabilities and treat them almost like they're 50-50.

"Humans are optimists, and they believe rare events will happen more frequently than they actually do."

Dr. Real suggests that it is just this sort of faith that keeps Las Vegas and state lotteries in business.

Diagrams: "The Mind of a Bumblebee" How do bumblebees weigh benefit and risk in deciding which plants to visit? In an experiment designed to probe the insects' thinking processes, a researcher set out an artificial meadow of reliable blue flowers, each containing a small amount of nectar, and chancy yellow flowers, some containing nothing, some a jackpot of nectar. Bumblebees turn out to choose a safe thing over a lottery. They prefer blue flowers with reliable though meager nectar to yellow flowers with a greater but inconsistent reward. This is a sensible strategy when nectar-rich flowers are rare. When yellow flowers are made the reliable source of nectar and blue flowers the unpredictable source, the bees switch from blue to yellow after sampling only three flowers. The quick switch conserves energy. (Source: Science)

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/03/ne...l?pagewanted=1
__________________
IT IS NOT WHAT YOU TRADE, IT IS HOW YOU TRADE IT!

You are on the internet - If you (google) search for it, you'll probably find it.
TheRumpledOne is offline   Reply With Quote

Votar bien este mensaje  Votar mal este mensaje
0
Sponsored links
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
Advertisement

Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump

Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Risk Warning! Trading FOREX on margin carries a high level of risk, and may not be suitable for everyone. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. The high degree of leverage can work against you as well as for you. Before deciding to invest in foreign exchange you should carefully consider your investment objectives, level of experience, and risk appetite. The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss of some or all of your initial investment and therefore you should not invest money that you cannot afford to lose. You should be aware of all the risks associated with foreign exchange trading, and seek advice from an independent financial advisor if you have any concerns. All information posted on this website is of our opinion and the opinion of our visitors and is not considered investment advice. Please use your own good judgment and seek advice from a qualified consultant, before believing and accepting any information posted on this website. The owners of this website claim no responsibility for any loss of funds you may incur as a result of trading Forex. Forex Forums claims no ownership over the graphics of third party programs and software posted by its users. Forex Forums is not compensated for Financial advice nor we give out such advice.


Forex Currency Pairs Provided By Forex Pros - Forex Trading PortalAd Management by RedTyger
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios

Powered by Forex!
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0 ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.